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 Questions like this have swirled around the Vatican since the
little-known Argentine Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio was elected pope
in March of last year, and many Catholics are still not sure how
to describe him.
In "The Great Reformer", British Catholic writer Austen Ivereigh
connects the pope to his Argentine roots, showing how his
country, its culture and its politics helped shape him. Ivereigh,
former deputy editor of the London Catholic weekly The Tablet
and former spokesman for Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, spoke
to Reuters about the book.
Q: There were lots of books about Pope Francis after his
election. Why another one?
A: Those books focus mostly on his period as
cardinal-archbishop of Buenos Aires. My interest has been in
what you might call the deep past of Argentine history and the
Church in Argentina. Twenty years ago, I did my doctorate on the
subject.
Q: What is most Argentine about him?
A: Culturally, he is very "porteno" - of Buenos Aires -
in his accent, his way of speaking and sense of humor. It’s very
much like a pope speaking in a New Jersey accent. What makes him
Argentine in a much deeper way is the experience of coming out
of a Catholic, nationalist and populist political culture. And
what makes him distinct in Argentina is that he's lower-middle
class.
Q: Initial reports after his election said Cardinal Jorge
Bergoglio was a conservative Jesuit who later became a liberal
bishop. You don't agree with that view.
A: The misreading of Peronism and nationalism as a form
of fascism is what really underlies this. Much of the
controversy over Bergoglio after his election, such as his
position under the dictatorship during the Dirty War, stems from
that misreading. Both the guerrillas and the dictatorship were
factions in a dispute between two elite ideologies, neither of
which spoke to the interests of ordinary people. Bergoglio
always rooted himself in the ordinary, simple, faithful and
uneducated people. In that sense, he is a populist. He was never
a conservative, never a right-winger, and he never became a
liberal.
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Q: Did he speak as freely and vividly years ago as he does
now?
A: Some of his early writings are very restrained, almost
ascetic. But from the beginning, there are really startling phrases.
Many he's made famous as pope, such as wanting pastors who "smell of
their sheep", he first used in the early 1980s.
Q: He had a reputation as a humorless man, but he seems so
jolly.
A: In Argentina, they say he never smiled. Actually, there
are many people who saw the joyful side of him, especially the
charismatic Catholics and evangelical pastors with whom he used to
pray and the poor people in the shantytowns.
Q: What changes will he make in the world Church?
A: First, he is introducing a far more collaborative and
collegial form of governance. The second area is in putting the
Church on a more missionary footing. Third, in Buenos Aires he
brought about a model of Christian unity based on deep friendship,
praying together and working together, rather than theological and
institutional dialogue. Now as pope he's doing the same, especially
with evangelical and Pentecostal Christians.
Q: The book is called "The Great Reformer". Why?
A: I'm convinced his will be seen as one of the great
reforming papacies, even if he himself may not last long as pope ...
Even though there is considerable opposition to him, I think the
reforms he's introducing are irreversible.
(Reporting by Tom Heneghan; Editing by Michael Roddy and Susan
Fenton)
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